QOTD

[randy_byers]

From the comments on a Ta-Nehisi Coates post on (sort of) the Cheney Regency:

Who could have predicted that surrounding an incompetent boob of a figurehead president with Machiavellian shitheads would end poorly?

Posted by ed | January 16, 2009 9:39 AM

Have you read Machiavelli?

Cheney et. al. thought they could get away with cliff-notes Machiavellianism. Fox's 24 is not the best guide to The Prince or The Discourses.

To be frank, I support Obama partially because he has read Machiavelli, and digested him partially in Niebuhr's company.

Posted by Carrington Ward | January 16, 2009 10:16 AM

I would just add that one of Obama's appeals to me from the very beginning was the feeling I got that he was going to take apart the Republican coalition -- specifically, that he would pull enough of the moderates away from the wingnuts to leave the wingnuts powerless. That was the true meaning and intent of his post-partisanship and "there are no red states or blue states." It was an attempt to frame wingnut partisanship as anti-American, but in the guise of appealing to American greatness and unity. That's also how I perceive his invitation to Rick Warren to say a prayer at the Inauguration: it is an attempt to drive a wedge between one group of homophobic, misogynistic Christians and another (e.g., James Dobson) by favoring one group over the other. The goal is to weaken the Christian Right as a political movement, but in the guise of embracing some of them.

That, to me, is Obama's Machiavellianism.

Well, it's a theory anyway.

Comments

[holyoutlaw.livejournal.com]

From what I've absorbed of their politics, Rick Warren is slightly less appalling than James Dobson, that's true. So here's hoping your analysis is prescient and perspicacious.

[randy-byers.livejournal.com]

Some have argued that Warren is good on poverty, global warming, and AIDS, but I haven't looked at it too closely myself.

[holyoutlaw.livejournal.com]

That's what I've heard, as well.

[voidampersand.livejournal.com]

I knew Machiavelli. Machiavelli was a great (small-r) republican who worked to preserve the freedom of his city. Those shitheads are no Machiavellis.

[randy-byers.livejournal.com]

Who was it that called them the Mayberry Machiavellils? Ah.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

Yes, Machiavelli gets a bad rap -- if you read him these days, a lot of what he says just seems like competent modern politics. And Obama's sheer competence as a politician is a lot of his appeal, his ability to exploit his opponents weaknesses in particular.

It is going to be an interesting few years for a politics watcher like me.

[randy-byers.livejournal.com]

I'll be curious to see how Obama and Rudd get along, because it seems like there's potential for a fruitful partnership, much as between Bush and Howard, except for things I consider good instead of bad.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

They do seem to be politicians with a very similar style in a lot of ways, with a fairly similar ideological position on the world. And a similar style of keeping their opponents down by keeping them well supplied with enough rope, rather than direct attack.

There are some worrying signs that both are a bit weak on environmental issues (Rudd with his very weak emissions trading proposal, Obama with his fairly dud choice for Transport secretary), possibly because both realise it is one area where it is always going to be easy for them to be better on the issues than their right wing counterparts.

[randy-byers.livejournal.com]

It's hard to know what to make of Obama's cabinet picks. Many of the high profile ones (in the economic area too) are questionable, but the next level down and the odd nooks and crannies are chock full of great people. It'll be interesting to see what happens when this administration starts making policy proposals.

[farmgirl1146.livejournal.com]

Pastor Eugene Robinson, an openly gay Episcopal pastor with a partner, is giving the first inaugural invocation at a ceremony at the Lincoln Memorial. Rev. Rick Warren said some very positive things things about this. While I am not certain about it, I heard an interview with Pastor Robinson that indicated that he has known that he was giving this first invocation for weeks. This seems to me to be a demonstration of what you all are talking about: Obama understands Machiavelli. I rather hope that Rev. Warren changes his mind on homosexuals. This would be a great thing, I think, because he does seem to be one of the few ministers from the extreme right who actually lives what he preaches. He has tremendous "street cred" with that group of people that might translate into more acceptance.

[randy-byers.livejournal.com]

Very interesting statement from Warren, and interesting too that he's been keeping his head down during this period. Is he trying not to cause problems for Obama, or is he trying not to cause problems for himself?

Robinson was on the Rachel Maddow show a couple of days ago, but Denys and I were talking about all this so I didn't hear their conversation. Joseph Lowery, who is giving the benediction at the Inauguration, is also pro-marriage equality. And I suppose you heard about Rev. Sharpton's comments the other day. Nice that some of these voices are being heard lately.

[farmgirl1146.livejournal.com]

I had not read about Rev. Sharpton's comments. I agree with him completely. I hope that Rev. Warren will figure it all out and become more Christ-like. I did listen to Maddow's interview with Pastor Robinson, as well as read other articles, and he is a brave soul.

The problem with homophobic Christians is that the more they know the more they understand that they are standing on a religious house of cards, meaning that their homophobia is baseless. Homophobia Christianity is a cultural contrivance not a theological truth.